The Depths of Chaparral Heights

Jesus Prime · Post by **Jesus Prime** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:02 pm

DOOM! THREE!

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:39 am

speaking of three, i'm nearly finished with my 3-part story. hopefully it will prod you slackers into contributing some new material. i'm going out on a limb to say that it'll be up by the end of the week. but don't quote me on that

i'm going out on a limb to say that it'll be up by the end of the week

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:17 am

Good. I've read the first two parts and I'm looking forward to it.

I have a story mostly finished and may post it here sometime soon. But I'm finishing the revision on a novel as well, so don't quote me either.

don't quote me either.

Enkil · Post by **Enkil** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:08 am

Part 1:

Aside from a few puncuation errors (three at most) the only problem is that, as everyone else has said, the 16 year old is a bit to well written.

Part 2:
Possible spelling error, you say Georg Reuter Fischer. You spell his name as both Georg and George at several points.

“Is anyone here?” I called as unloudly as possible, not wanting to violate library etiquette. Twice, and there was no response.”

You might want to work that into one sentence, it’s a little weird having a sentence saying “Twice, and there no response. Also, ”unloudly” might be better as quietly. Might I suggest a revision of it?

“Is anyone here?” I called out twice, as quietly as possible not wanting to violate library etiquette, but to no response.

It provided a more tangible alternative to the more modern database.

Why?

I would have liked to study a floorplan of the building

Is it “a” floor plan or “the” floor plan? I’m not sure to be honest, but since there’s really only one floor plan for the building I’m thinking it might be “the” floor plan.

Over All: I absolutely love the use of black outs, espicially at such unexpected places. It's amazing and tantalizing. Bring on Part III!

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:59 pm

great feedback! thanks for giving it so much attention.

Enkil wrote:Aside from a few puncuation errors (three at most) the only problem is that, as everyone else has said, the 16 year old is a bit to well written.

yeah, i'm shortening the leash on that in the 2nd draft.. i found some of my old high school writing assignments recently, and i'm getting a more accurate sense of how it should be.

Enkil wrote:Possible spelling error, you say Georg Reuter Fischer. You spell his name as both Georg and George at several points.

it's supposed to be Georg.. it comes from 'the terror from the depths' by fritz leiber. the e's must be habitual.

Enkil wrote:“Is anyone here?” I called out twice, as quietly as possible not wanting to violate library etiquette, but to no response.

well, here i was hoping to manifest more of the pause between his calls, without actually spelling it out. and yes, 'unloudly' sounds stilted and outmoded, but it felt like an expression emiel walden would use.. if it bothers anyone else, please speak up. right now i still feel kinda good about it

Enkil wrote:It provided a more tangible alternative to the more modern database.
Why?

i just wanted to suggest that emiel is old-fashioned, again without making him say so.. i could say 'the cards were more familiar and useful to me,' but that's a little flat. maybe the line just isn't necessary to the story. i'm prepared to do some semi-vicious pruning in draft 2.

Enkil wrote:Is it “a” floor plan or “the” floor plan? I’m not sure to be honest, but since there’s really only one floor plan for the building I’m thinking it might be “the” floor plan.

good point. that started out as 'a schematic' or 'a blueprint' or something.

again, thanks for scrutinizing the nuts & bolts. everyone else, please put in your 2¢ on any of these points Enkil addressed, and any others you come up with. i consider everyone's corrections, opinions and impressions to be valuable in this process. even yogi's

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:26 am

COMPLETE FIRST DRAFT NOW ONLINE - READ IT HERE!

spoiler warning.. please read the story before you read the thread

Enkil · Post by **Enkil** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:11 pm

I loved it, first off. However I do have a few things to nit pick.

When you wrote When the stowaway becomes especially chatty, I disassemble Chuck’s pistol and scrub each part with an old toothbrush. The pistol is very clean now, and working smoothly despite a lack of lubrication. I’ve been practicing with it unloaded, finding out which position is most comfortable. My favorite is under the chin. As I was reading I was under the impression that he was practicing with the pistol for when the custodian comes back, in fact, I was under this impression until the last sentance. I don't know if others had this misunderstanding but you might want to clear it up.

I don't understand how Emiel Walden could have answered the phone at the end. A clone? Was his imagination playing tricks on him the whole time? Was he tripping on acid?

Over all:

Unless you're planning to write a sequal of sorts I don't understand why Robert plays such a big part in the story except to get it rolling and provide certain clues and protection for Emiel.

Marine Ogdons part in the story might be better explained. I know her and Robert were talking about the strangness about Chaparral Heights, but the next mention of her, more or less, is in that short article at the end. What's her signifigance?

Were was the pulsating sound which created black outs coming from? That canyon or the library? I'm a little confused.

I can't say enough how awesome this story is though. I hope I haven't been to harsh

.

E.A. Lovecraft · Post by **E.A. Lovecraft** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:33 pm

JJ Burke wrote:COMPLETE FIRST DRAFT NOW ONLINE - READ IT HERE!

It's about time! Looking forward to reading it when I get some spare time this weekend.

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:15 am

spoiler warning.. please read the story before you read the thread

Enkil wrote:As I was reading I was under the impression that he was practicing with the pistol for when the custodian comes back, in fact, I was under this impression until the last sentance. I don't know if others had this misunderstanding but you might want to clear it up.

yes, that's the desired effect! you think it's some kind of defiant training regimen to strengthen himself, but then—oh. bummer.

I don't understand how Emiel Walden could have answered the phone at the end. A clone? Was his imagination playing tricks on him the whole time? Was he tripping on acid?

this is supposed to be associated with robert's 'other me' from his journal, as well as the twins at the park and the triplets in the library. without trying to break down the mechanics of it, emiel realizes that he's been facsimilated.. so when he makes the statement that he hasn't been out of his apartment, he's really trying to say, 'don't trust anything coming from 'emiel walden' except this one document.'

part of me is just happy that you have so many questions. that's been one of the main goals to accomplish with this story.. if it doesn't leave people wondering, and filling in possibilities with their own imaginations, then it's not a success to me. another reason for the loose ends and red herrings is to motivate myself to continue writing. i have answers to a lot of the questions, and ideas for how to reveal them. chaparral heights could be something like my arkham, if i don't go into a slump and stop building on it.

I can't say enough how awesome this story is though. I hope I haven't been to harsh .

no way, harsh is what it's gonna take to make this thing worthy of publication. i'm glad you enjoyed it, and grateful for your input

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:05 am

I've read the third part and mean to get back with more detailed feedback, but for now I just want to say that the story is imaginative and energetically told. There are some things that need to be smoothed over in the prose, and some parts that need more explanation, to be brought forward more in the story. There may be a few elements that could be dropped altogether--that by eliminating might increase the effect of the rest.

One of my favorite parts was the setting of the library itself, its arrangement and abandonment. I've never heard of a library like that but I enjoyed imagining it for the purpose of the story. Is it based on fact?

I also had some confusion toward the end. The sheer number of weird happenings and their oblique presentation in the story made it somewhat difficult for me to sort out. What kept me going was the strength of narrative, the descriptions and ideas. After all the criticisms have come in, and you've revised this story to your liking, I'd like to see what you might do with a story that's either simpler or with a more distinct plotline.

"Chapparal Heights" works best for me as a kind of nightmare, in which although the scenes don't seem entirely answerable to logic, they're still vivid enough to capture my attention. As I said, I mean to give you something more detailed later. But for now, I hope this helps.

Enkil · Post by **Enkil** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:14 am

Even if you meant for those things JJ, you might want to make it more clear that you mean them because as it stands they're a wee confusing - and you don't want to confuse your reader.

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:26 am

Hodgson wrote:There are some things that need to be smoothed over in the prose, and some parts that need more explanation, to be brought forward more in the story. There may be a few elements that could be dropped altogether--that by eliminating might increase the effect of the rest.

we are in agreement here, and i've already caught several parts i want to revise or cut out. i think the underlying problem is that i write in little spurts, each effort being somewhat isolated, with different characteristics.

I've never heard of a library like that but I enjoyed imagining it for the purpose of the story. Is it based on fact?

no, it's made-up.. as i understand it, underground structures like that aren't commonly built in southern california. if i got the idea from a particular source, i can't think of what it is.

After all the criticisms have come in, and you've revised this story to your liking, I'd like to see what you might do with a story that's either simpler or with a more distinct plotline.

that's just what i have in mind: something around 5000 words, probably in 3rd person, definitely not narrated by emiel walden (who i blame for most of the wrinkles so far). shooting for the moon, i'd like to have a bunch of chaparral heights stories that reveal things about each other, ending up as more than a sum of parts. in that case, i might end up changing the name of this story to 'the coyman manuscript' or something.

"Chapparal Heights" works best for me as a kind of nightmare, in which although the scenes don't seem entirely answerable to logic, they're still vivid enough to capture my attention. As I said, I mean to give you something more detailed later. But for now, I hope this helps.

this hasn't been a flawless execution, but i do seriously want the overall reaction to be as you described here. the reader should feel like they've just peeped through a keyhole, and want to open the door on a bigger picture. (but not be unnecessarily confused)

i just gotta take it one step at a time.. keep the faith, the stiff upper lip and so on

Enkil wrote:Even if you meant for those things JJ, you might want to make it more clear that you mean them because as it stands they're a wee confusing - and you don't want to confuse your reader.

can't argue with that! i'm just starting to comb over it for revision. please don't hesitate to point out any particular weaknesses as you see them, and as you feel like it. i'll take everything into consideration

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:35 am

JJ Burke wrote:
Hodgson wrote:I've never heard of a library like that but I enjoyed imagining it for the purpose of the story. Is it based on fact?
no, it's made-up.. as i understand it, underground structures like that aren't commonly built in southern california. if i got the idea from a particular source, i can't think of what it is.

I meant the hexagonal form of the room, the radial arrangement of the shelves, etc., not the unplumbed subterranean depths of unspeakable madness

.

But if you think of the source of that hideous depth, I'd like to know about that too.

JJ Burke · Post by **JJ Burke** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:41 am

well, the lower half of the main (visible) library structure is under ground level.. he had to go downstairs to get to the bookshelves.

but yes, the hexagons, the spokes, all that stuff i'm taking credit for.. until someone goes to the trouble of exposing my unconscious fraud

Hodgson · Post by **Hodgson** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:47 am

JJ Burke wrote:well, the lower half of the main (visible) library structure is under ground level.. he had to go downstairs to get to the bookshelves.

but yes, the hexagons, the spokes, all that stuff i'm taking credit for.. until someone goes to the trouble of exposing my unconscious fraud

Ack. Sorry, I'd forgotten the steps and so on. At any rate, I liked it.