The Temple of Dagon

The entry way to the Caverns of Zin is too hard. It is possible that I am bad at puzzles, but implementation features make this one especially hard.

I am certain that I know the entrance, because I've gated into the Caverns and walked back out.

The entry is a stone. I go to the entry room, and type LOOK STONE. The response is "A large, green stone bracelet lies on the ground". That's because I'm wearing two stone bracelets. I bought them in a shop, but the long description says they are on the ground even though I've never put them on the ground. It isn't sufficient to type "LOOK 3.STONE". The response to that is "There is only one!", even though there are clearly three: the two bracelets I'm wearing, plus the cavern entrance. To look at the stone I need to remove my bracelets and put them in a bag.

The entrance has a ring. I discovered it can be manipulated. However, I discovered that by accident. Someone let a player build a house at the cavern entrance! The house doors here also have rings! All these rings confuse me.

(All player houses seem OOC, maybe they should have a (Player House) indication in front of them?)

I want to examine the cavern entrance ring. Of course I can't, because I'm wearing a ring. So off with the rings, and they go in the sack. LOOK RING. "You do not see that here." Of course, it is here, because the manipulation commands work on it. The ring is made of iron, so I EXAMINE IRON, but of course I have an iron key. After I've gotten rid of my iron key, I still can't 'see' the ring.

It is confusing to be able to use manipulation commands against keywords for things that can't be examined.

Typo: The help for the manipulation commands gives the syntax for most command but not PUSH nor LIFT.

I will keep working on this puzzle, but consider adding objects or extended descriptions, possibly with hints.

The game might have some way around this (you can push or pull the ring and produce a clicking sound but no noticeable effects) but it was my understanding from 'The Dream Quest' that even in Lovecraft the stone was so massive that it was an unpractical entrance to Zin and was used in the story only as an exit.

There's at least one walking entrance to Zin on Oriab.

There's also a secret entrance in a temple in the Enchanted Woods, I do believe. And I have a feeling there's not always something to "look" at when it comes to triggers. You may be able to interact with it, but not actually see it, but there will usually be a hint about how to use it within the room description in that sort of case.

draeger wrote:I go to the entry room, and type LOOK STONE. The response is "A large, green stone bracelet lies on the ground". That's because I'm wearing two stone bracelets. I bought them in a shop, but the long description says they are on the ground even though I've never put them on the ground.

Objects in CthulhuMUD have 2 descriptions, a "short" one (the one you see when you type INV or EQ) and a "long" one (the one you see when you LOOK and when objects are dropped on the ground). So it's not unnatural for an object to have a long description wrote having in mind the object on the ground. You know, it's like playing Counter Strike and saying "Why can't I stun the guy by hitting him with the back of my rifle?" - because it's just the way the game is.

draeger wrote:It isn't sufficient to type "LOOK 3.STONE". The response to that is "There is only one!", even though there are clearly three: the two bracelets I'm wearing, plus the cavern entrance. To look at the stone I need to remove my bracelets and put them in a bag.

Yes, that can be annoying but it has a purpose. Some commands look first at what you have with you, and then at what's in the room. Others do vice-versa. Perhaps the LOOK command could be of better use if coded to first look in the room and then at carried items, you might post a note on the IDEAS board about it.

draeger wrote:The entrance has a ring. I discovered it can be manipulated. However, I discovered that by accident.
[...]
I want to examine the cavern entrance ring. Of course I can't, because I'm wearing a ring. So off with the rings, and they go in the sack. LOOK RING. "You do not see that here." Of course, it is here, because the manipulation commands work on it. The ring is made of iron, so I EXAMINE IRON, but of course I have an iron key. After I've gotten rid of my iron key, I still can't 'see' the ring.
[...]
It is confusing to be able to use manipulation commands against keywords for things that can't be examined.

The stone description says "a large iron ring remains in place at the center of the slab, its thick black surface remarkably free of rust. The ring extends into the stone surface of
the slab." That's a good description for the ring, and it can be quite a good hint that there's a ring that could be manipulated. Not all manipulable items are a complete object in the game, and well, if all manipulable things were LOOK-able, things would be way too easy...

draeger wrote: Someone let a player build a house at the cavern entrance! The house doors here also have rings! All these rings confuse me.

Manipulation commands won't work on "normal" (not expressely manipulable) objects. E.g you can't "push fruit". So if you can "move ring", that's no ring that you're wearing nor that's on the house door.

draeger wrote: I will keep working on this puzzle, but consider adding objects or extended descriptions, possibly with hints.

You have a ring, and a slab, and a set of manipulation commands. Then all you might need is patience (or strength perhaps? Anyways, I can open it).

This sounds like the kind of thing we'd love to see on the bug board. The forums here are great, but for best response for all the Imm's (as this is primarily for players), using the in-game boards will net you far more responses.

I believe there is a counting issue due to some of the architecture decisions in the code base as it was inherited (tracking back to diku/etc), in which items on-hand are not going to be the same list as items on the ground. This is a bug, and if you post it on the bug board Foxbird or I will get reminded to take a look at how feasible a fix would be. Alternately (as my sig indicates) you can shoot us an email to cthulhumud@foxpaws.net.

I admit to being fairly lax in checking these forums, primarily thanks to Ray, Franklin and several other veteran players who can sometimes answer these questions often better than myself. Thanks guys!